This digest file has been Multi-Part MIME'd
using DIGESTER v 2.0 by Stephen Knight (stephenk@ftp.com)
b!uK
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 13:00:01 PST
From: h.w. neff (the bear) <echoes-request@fawnya.tcsi.com>
Precedence: junk
Reply-To: h.w. neff (the bear) <echoes-request@fawnya.tcsi.com>
Errors-To: h.w. neff (the bear) <echoes-request@fawnya.tcsi.com>
Subject: echoes Digest V6 #205
To: echoes-digest
echoes Digest Thu, 13 Feb 97 Volume 6 : Issue 205
Today's Topics:
administrivia
"Publius"
Abbrev. Question
Attn: Cameron Mayer
Beethoven
DG on SNL - the original broadcast
DG on SNL - the original broadcast (fwd)
Do you need help fixing your Broken China?
Goodbye Dan!
Gun and bullets
guns etc.
JPEG, Acrobat, EPS, PICT, TIFF -- cast your vote now
JPG to PS who is the only one
Late Berfday gift!!
PF reference on Newsradio 12 Feb 97
Rick's album woes
The Wall
Tribute to PF gig: 30 March, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
WYWH lyrics
ZZZ: JPEG, Acrobat, EPS, PICT, TIFF -- cast your vote now (3 msgs)
/\
/|_\
/___|\
/__|___\
/_|___|__\
/|___|___|_\
/___|___|___|\-------|||||---||||--|---|---|||---|||||---||||--
/__|___|___|___\------|------|------|---|--|---|--|------|---------
=========/_|___|___|___|__\-----|||||--|------|||||--|---|--|||||---|||-----
/|___|___|___|___|_\----|------|------|---|--|---|--|----------|-----
/___|___|___|___|___|\---|||||---||||--|---|---|||---|||||--||||-------
/__|___|___|___|___|___\
/_|___|___|___|___|___|__\
/|___|___|___|___|___|___|_\
/___|___|___|___|___|___|___|\
/__|___|___|___|___|___|___|___\
/_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__\
submissions: echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com
administrivia: echoes-request@fawnya.tcsi.com
mail server: echoserv@fawnya.tcsi.com
(put commands in body)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
to unsubscribe, mail to echoserv@fawnya.tcsi.com
or to the administrivia address.
DO NOT USE *ANY* OTHER ADDRESSES!
the server commands are:
unsubscribe echoes
quit
-- END included message
-- BEGIN included message
Subject: administrivia
From: "h.w. neff" <bear>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:47:13 -0800 (PST)
Reply-To: "h.w. neff" <bear>
To: echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com
hi.
time for another ping-o-rama to help simplify my life.
please follow these instructions _carefully_ for "proper effect"
and be warned that by the time i see whatever it is that
you have done it will be too late because you are going to
interact with a computer program that doesn't keep a log
of more than the most rudimentary stuff.....if you must tell
me something, tell _me_ and not this stupid automaton upon
which i keep hacking.
first, please verify that your mailer is properly configured
to provide a valid sender address.
(and i'd prefer nothing beyond the address: no names, funny
quotes, etc.)
nb: a "reply-to" address _does_not_ qualify.
from the address which you used to subscribe to echoes, you
should mail to
echoserv@fawnya.tcsi.com
in the body of the message put only the following _ONE_LINE_
command:
ping
no .sig and no message -- nothing else.
by return mail you should get a note that says:
your 'ping' has been noted.
if you do not get such a reply within 24 hours, repeat the
above steps _one_more_time_ and if your second attempt
also fails to produce a reply then please contact me.
YOU NEED TO DO THIS _NOW_.
ttfn,
bear.
To: echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com
Okay Gang,
I've racked my brain and tried to read into the context of the statements,
and I even searched the FAQ, but to no avail. So, though this may be a
dumb question, I must ask it: what does ObPF: and TGTRATS (or TGTR&TS)
stand for? Will anyone 'fess up? Thanks in advance!
Mark R. Wagner
usfmdxfr@ibmmail.com
To: ECHOES@fawnya.tcsi.com
Please excuse the use of bandwidth.
I tried getting this to you privately but it kept bouncing back.
> No problem!! However, I don't have a great graphics program here so it
> doesn't look that great :-( Send me your snail address and I'll send
> you the CWTAE J-card. The TGTRATS inlay Alex sent me is in postscript
> and I can't print it. I asked ECHOES if one exists in JPEG and if so
> for someone to send me one. Do you have web access? If you can send
> TGTRATS J-card that would be even better. I'll print any of 'em I can
> for ya'.
I already have the CWTA,E J-card. I need the others though. I have web
access and will work on getting the other cards.
Later eh,
And thanks,
Loaf.
One of the indictments of civilization is that happiness and intelligence
are so rarely found in the same person.
- William Feather
======================================================================
"You say the hill's too steep to climb, climbing"
- Dave Gilmour, Roger Waters
To: echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com
Marcus Brownicus spake:
> > But I really don't see how it would be possible for a person to
> > have the ability to even CONCEIVE of a gorgeous guitar passage
> > without having the ability to PLAY like that.
>
> Hmm-hmm-hmm
> HMMM.
>
> Could Beethoven play all instruments? All at once?
hmmm...I honestly don't know, wasn't around then. Maybe we should
ask The Checkered Demon or birthday boy Bob? ;^)
____/> Beaker
~~(___/ ...the Mad Mustang Maniac...
/> />
"Why is it that only strangers are perfect? Once you get to
know them, they're like the rest of us. Flawed." -Herb Caen
To: echoes <echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com>
Dean wrote:
>>And to further add to the record, David Johansen was part of the >>regular
SNL house band, which hardly qualifies him as a "musical guest."
According to the ticket for the show (posted on:
http://www.walrus.com/~quarlo/floyd.htm) they list both David Gilmour and
Buster Poindexter as the musical guests. Now if Poindexter a.k.a. Johnasen was
a part of the regualr SNL band, that casts it in an even worse light as they
could easily have had him on any week. Whereas, David was a one time guest. Why
limit his time so you can put a member of the regular band on dancing around
the stage singing Hot, Hot, Hot over and over?
To: echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com
> Dean wrote:
>
> >>And to further add to the record, David Johansen was part of the >>regular
> SNL house band, which hardly qualifies him as a "musical guest."
>
> According to the ticket for the show (posted on:
> http://www.walrus.com/~quarlo/floyd.htm) they list both David Gilmour and
> Buster Poindexter as the musical guests. Now if Poindexter a.k.a. Johnasen was
> a part of the regualr SNL band, that casts it in an even worse light as they
> could easily have had him on any week. Whereas, David was a one time guest. Why
> limit his time so you can put a member of the regular band on dancing around
> the stage singing Hot, Hot, Hot over and over?
"Hot Hot Hot" had a brief moment of popularity, so I guess if you're an
SNL producer you've got to let Buster go for it before everyone's sick of
it. I'm 90% sure that Johansen was in the regular SNL band then (I
remember hating him on a regular basis) but this ticket stub has entered
the beginning of a slight doubt on my part.
dean
-- END included message
-- BEGIN included message
Subject: Do you need help fixing your Broken China?
To: "The (has the count changed?) people in the world that truly understand...." <echoes@tcsi.com>
Greetings Echosians and Echosiettes...
With the BC date pushed again in the States, I am adding my help to that
of Gerhard's and a fellow canuck whose name I do not remember (my apologies),
both having offered to supply BC to those having trouble obtaining it.
BC is readily available here in Southern Ontario, costing about $20-22 CDN
($15-17 US). Shipping runs about $3-5 CDN (I think. It's been a couple
of months since I've shipped a disk, and I don't remember). Of course,
that varies depending on the distance to ship.
But I digress. I will gladly help anyone that would like a copy, at your
cost only.
I may be reached at bankst@cbogate.peel.edu.on.ca or timbank@enoreo.on.ca
There are some who call me...
Tim.
To: echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com
Danny Boy wrote:
> not sure how I am going to survive with the wisdom of Gerhard, Mark
> Brown, Tom Hood, Bobzilla, Alex (an email animal) or, of course, mr h.w.
> neff himself.
Yikes! Leave it to a departing lurker to stick the words "wisdom" and
"Bobzilla" in the same sentence! Never thought I'd see the day...
Anyway, we're sorry to see you go, Dan. Lurkers make Echoes more fun. Who
wants to spend so much time talking to the same old group two-dozen boring
posters? Hurry back.
Mike McInnis
One of the Boring
To: <echoes@tcsi.com>
The talk recently about the gun and bullets in TW got me to thinking,
and in my own convoluted style, I've come up with a thought that would
be rather deep, but just might work as a Parker/Waters created plot
connection.
In the beginning of TW, we see Pink's father cleaning his service
revolver. We see the gun, but it doesn't have any bullets in it.
Later in TW, we see Pink digging through a drawer, and coming across
some bullets, among other things. We see the bullets, but no gun.
Could these two instances have some connection intended by
Parker/Waters? A way of indicating some connection between father and
son...each has a piece of something that is basically no good without
what the other has? The gun representing the father's experience and
wisdom that he is ready to pass on to his son, and the bullets
representing parts of Pink's personality that need a father's touch.
Could the bullets actually represent pieces of Pink's personality/life
that are left undeveloped because he doesn't have a father to give him
what he needs (a gun) to make them work? The scene with Pink placing
the bullet on the railroad track could then represent Pink's misguided
attempts to do something with the pieces of his life that are lacking
because he didn't have a father.
This is probably stretching things a bit to find some meaning that
really wasn't intended, but in a strange way, it works for me. :)
Dennis Howie
To: echoes <echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com>
Hi there,
Yes, it will soon be totally illegal to own any kind of firearm at home in the
UK. Even our cops don't carry guns. However, many people may have old service
revolvers, ammunition etc, that were brought back from the wars and then handed
down in the family. My Grandfather for example had a service pistol that was
used by his father in the First World War and which he kept in the attic, until
it was handed into the poice during a gun amnesty several years ago.
Hope this answers your query
Martin
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 07:45:03 -0800
From: "Michael Teige (Entex)" <v-ntxmte@microsoft.com>
Subject: Plot problem
To: "'Keith Collyer'" <keithc@ti.com>
Indeed....Isn't it totally illegal to have a gun in England? I remember
hearing that the shooting death rate in England was nil compared to gun
death's in the U.S. due to the fact that Americans can own guns & Brits
cannot. If this is true, how long has this been law? Can any British
Echosians shine any light on this law? If this is indeed true, the gun
Pink found must have been a military weapon of some sort. How they
ended up with it is beyond me. Creative license perhaps? What price
art eh?
-- END included message
-- BEGIN included message
Subject: JPEG, Acrobat, EPS, PICT, TIFF -- cast your vote now
To: Alexander Dekhtyar <dekhtyar@cs.umd.edu>,
At 23:08 12-02-97 -0500, Alexander Dekhtyar wrote:
>> And Mitch <yancx@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I also am looking for the TGTRATS J card in JPG format...Actually any
>> format except postscript. Thanks
<snip>
> On the other hand - I beleive Andre had his reasons for
>creating Postscript inlay.
Yep, there are three:
1. The resolution in Postscript is very good.
2. A lot (most?) modern printers can print postscript
3. It keeps the number of Mbytes involved pretty low (as a matter of
facts it's not even Kbytes)
Ooop, sorry there are 4 reasons:
4. I have a very simple program (idraw) capable of making these inlays.
Oh well, make that 5 reasons:
5. Postscript is ASCII, so any 'mistakes' can be corrected by using
a simple text-editor.
Everyone who downloaded the postscript file can make their own
adjustments (if you like)
Come to think of it, there's another reason:
6. The file can easily be send by email (because it's ASCII).
(Well, who knows, there might be more reasons)
\Andre
,,_
,'( ) __________________________
|`V | / |
/ < / EMAIL: andre@nitg.tno.nl |
=~~~-./ /___________________________|
L
To: Pink Floyd ML <echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com>
...Hoi, Echoes!...
(5 bonus points to everyone who got the pun
in $subj$. Vernon is excluded (-: ) (-:
First, let me apoligize for seding two *INCOMPLETE* messages
to echoes last night. I was at home and my phone connection
was crappy. SORRY.
Now, let me finish what I started to write.
First of - Andre and Paul gave everyone a number of good reasons
why Postscript is chosen for inlays.
To reiterate it:
TGTRATS inlay
in .ps weighs 22 K
in low resolution .gif weighs 21 K (with small text
unreadable)
in high-resolution .jpg weigs 1.3M
What is 1.3 M you will ask me ? XV on my SPARC ULTRA takes
around 2 min to load it.
Finally, I cut the white space off the 1.3M .jpg and got
a 91K .JPG image, with small text being somewhat readable.
(this version will be provided on my web page).
Now back to the point I was trying to make.
I disagree with Dave that we shoudl choose *1* format and
make it a standard for echoes tape tree (and other) inlays.
As Paul clearly explained, JPEG while being (together with .gif)
*the* format for scanned images, is very bad
for publishing.
Postscript on the other hand is not only a very good publishing
format, but it also provides for ASCII source. This makes it
extremely easy to change and correct the inlay, and even to
create your own inlays based on the one you have (like I did
early Early Effeverescence collection).
At this point the discussion is sort of moot, since we *already*
have both JPG and PS as standard formats.
A couple more comments:
On UNIX systems, whenever you are trying to print an image
it gets first converted to POSTSCRIPT format (because
the only printers capble of printing graphics are usually postsccript
printers). So, for a good portion of echoseans, .ps is "native"
format.
To Gerhard: I explained the basic and most straight-forward
procedure of converting .ps to .jpg. I specifically chose not
to go in details. But thanks for the tech info.
To everyone: the JPEGs can be obtained from
http://www.cs.umd.edu/~dekhtyar/pf.html (click on INLAYS)
Cheers!
..........Alex, "an email animal"............
To: echoes@tcsi.com
Echosians,
Greetings to all. Upon my arrival back to work I was surprised to
find a late birthday present from a long time friend. There are 2 items of
which I need some info on.
The first item is a tape labeled: Syd Barrett L'Olympia, Paris BBC.
I am assuming this is a RoIO but need the date on it. It is a live
performance (well at least what I've heard so far...
The second item is the one I need info on. It is a 7" PINK VINYL
record titled "Syd Barrett Crazy Diamond" it states that it is a limited
edition colored vinyl EP. It is a Capitol release and the cat# is: NR 7243
8 58186 7 7. It also states the the orig versions appear on the Syd Barrett
3CD Box Set "Crazy Diamond" I'm assuming that it's a single release from
the Crazy Diamond Box but would like to know how many there are, cost etc.
The trak list is: SIDE A Terrapin, Octopus SIDE B Baby Lemonade,
Effervescing Elephant..
any ideas?
_pink
_______________________________________________________________________
. |
__ ( ) | |\| |< email me: mailto:pink@uga.cc.uga.edu
| Visit me: http://pink.rserv.uga.edu/
_______________________________________________________________________
To: echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com
Didn't see anyone else mention this...
Woo hoo, a PF quote on one of my favorite sitcoms (Newsradio) by one
of my favorite comic actors (Phil Hartman). For those who don't
know, Newsradio is a sitcom on Wednesday nights on NBC at 8 pm
Central time USA.
******
Here's how the scene went (to the best of my memory):
The station owner, Jimmy, goes to dinner with a teacher and one of
her students, and he spends the entire time telling the kid he
doesn't have to ask permission to go to the bathroom, doesn't
have to wash his hands if he didn't pee on himself, etc.
The teacher finally gives Jimmy a lecture about manners.
Cut to the trio returning to the station and encountering on-air
personality Bill (Phil Hartman). Jimmy is acting all polite, taking
her coat for her and everything.
Bill: What have you done to our Jimmy?
Teacher: Oh, I just showed him the value of a little education.
Bill (in a raised, irate voice): We don't need your education! We
don't need your thought control!
******
ROTFL. Ahh, yet another reason to like this show.
It got moderate laughter from the audience/laugh track, probably
more because of his tone of voice rather than any recognition of the
reference. Oh well.
- --
Chad PPp *----------------------*------------------------------*
PPP | chad@caa.mrs.umn.edu | http://www.mrs.umn.edu/~chad |
P ankratz *----------------------*------------------------------*
To: rkearns@uoft02.utoledo.edu
'Twas on Feb 13 Ryan D. Kearns spoke the words:
> Anyone know where I can get a hold of this (mail order)? Can I order
> it from some CD store in Canada via the Internet? Any relevant URLs
> would be greatly appreciated.
When I was in a record store several months ago they said they could
order it for me at no extra cost. Try a local store first.
th
- --
The net is not about information; it is about people
The Bright Side of the Moon:
http://www.ainet.com/eye/brightside.html
To: echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com
Dear Echoes list members,
On the 30th of March, 1997, that's a sunday evening, there will be a
tribute to Pink Floyd by the Dutch symfo rock band "Pros and Cons". The
concert will be at "De Melkweg", Amsterdam, The Netherlands. It will
start at about 10pm.
"Pros and cons" consists of 10 musicians plus 4 visual crew (lighting,
photo projection etc). They will perform tracks from PF albums ranging
from 1971 to 1994, such as Meddle, Dark side of the Moon, Wish you were
here, Animals, The Wall, the Final Cut, Momentary Lapse and Division
Bell. They will also perform a part of Roger Waters' solo album The Pros
and Cons of Hitchhiking (about 20 minutes). The entire concert will last
for about 100-120 minutes.
Their homepage is at:
http://is.twi.tudelft.nl/~jwva/jwhome/np/music/jwmupc.htm
For further information about the gig, you can contact
jan.willem.van.aalst@nlbrnimc.origin.nl
Hope to see you there!
Regards,
- --
Jan-Willem van Aalst
Multimedia design, development & research
Origin/Interactive Media Competence Center b.v.
extern: http://www.origin-it.com/
intern: http://www.nlutripc.origin.nl/cmall/chimcc/imcc/
homepg: http://is.twi.tudelft.nl/~jwva/
Tel.(+31)35-5484433, fax.(+31)35-5416781
To: echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com
Clap (is that your name or your ailment?) wrote:
> this is how i hum wish you were here in my head. I know i have the lyrics,
> but can anyone tell me where im off:
> and how we found the same old fears
What have we found? The same old fears.
> what'd i get a 90? 100? 85?
I give it a 75. Good recall, but poor capitalization (sorry, bear, but you
get low marks, too), missed punctuation, poor line breaks, and the above
goof. But at least you passed! ;-)
Actually, could it possibly take longer to type out the lyrics from memory
than to look it up? Someone should nominate you for a "Faulty-logic" Webber!
Mike McInnis
Sorry, but I'm fresh out of clever comments. Only stale ones left.
-- END included message
-- BEGIN included message
Subject: ZZZ: JPEG, Acrobat, EPS, PICT, TIFF -- cast your vote now
To: the master of fox hounds <TristanDCW@memes.com>,
At 22:19 12-02-97 -0800, the master of fox hounds wrote:
>Sure you can educate people about PS, but there will always be someone
>asking for a JPEG. Why fight he inevitable when JPEG is such a fantastic
>format anyway?
You can educate people about JPEG but there will always be someone asking
for a Postscript file.
(No joke, I *really* don't know what to do with a JPEG file, execpt begging
my system-adminstrator to give me a hand. No for 'private' use that's not
always easy).
\Andre
,,_
,'( ) __________________________
|`V | / |
/ < / EMAIL: andre@nitg.tno.nl |
=~~~-./ /___________________________|
L
-- END included message
-- BEGIN included message
Subject: ZZZ: JPEG, Acrobat, EPS, PICT, TIFF -- cast your vote now
To: the master of fox hounds <TristanDCW@memes.com>
the master of fox hounds wrote:
> At 6:18 PM -0800 2/12/97, Paul Goracke wrote regarding file formates:
>
> >PostScript is not as scary as people make it out to be. Maybe you don't
> >understand exactly what it does.
>
> Actually, since I've been creating graphics for newspapers and print shops
> since 1988, I'm very close friends with PS.
I meant "you" generically, as "one". Not "you" specifically, Dave.
> Normally I'd have no problem with PostScript myself, but (a) some of the
> commands are not universally readable, and (b) most people aren't as
> knowledgable about PS as others. And the J-Cards are going to "most
> people." And while PS may be standard on both Unix and Mac, the average
> user still has a much easier time with JPEGs.
Was there anything complicated about my directions? Did you try any of
them? You don't have to preview or modify it--just send it to the printer.
If you don't like it, it's one page. It's not like some of the Unix program
"manuals" that might turn out to be 50 pages. If you really want to preview
it before printing, use the pdf version.
> > File size (bytes) Image resolution (dpi)
> > gif 21896 72
> > eps 22355 printer max (>300)
> > pdf 6785 printer max (>300)
>
> You left off JPEG. Use "Good" quality JPEG compression.
Because I didn't have one of TGTRATS for comparison, which is why I
mentioned the Smoking Blues and Careful jpegs. But from Alex's post, we now
have a comparison: 1.3MB. For something almost exclusively text. That's
nuts.
> I work with both EPS and JPEG and I can testify that EPS is a bloated
> whale compared to JPEG, and with visual differences that are noticable
> only to professionals.
I have never been satisfied w/ the text printed via jpeg. And text is the
important part of an inlay.
> Sure you can educate people about PS, but there will always be someone
> asking for a JPEG. Why fight he inevitable when JPEG is such a fantastic
> format anyway?
Why do we listen to Pink Floyd, and (many of us) rail against the "dreck"
on the radio? (yeah, my tiny bit o' PFC)
Because I'd rather that people become educated, and improve the quality of
life just a little bit. There's no need to muck about in mediocrity when a
superior format is readily available; approaching inescapable, even.
> Yes, for professional purposes, PostScript is arguably best. (Although
> professional photographers have adopted JPEG as their standard.)
Photographers don't usually put text on their images. JPEG may be a
standard for images, especially on the web, but we're talking publishing
here--an inlay is pretty worthless until you print it out. And that's where
PostScript reigns, w/ good reason. If you're going to put a JPEG image into
an inlay, PS can combine that w/ high-quality text overlaid. _That's_ the
best of both worlds.
pg
It's about the text, man!
-- END included message
-- BEGIN included message
Subject: ZZZ: JPEG, Acrobat, EPS, PICT, TIFF -- cast your vote now
To: The cold electronic eyes <echoes@fawnya.tcsi.com>
Oops.
It looks like I was the one who wasn't paying attention and inserted and
"Re:" before the "ZZZ", circumventing that useful convention.
My profuse apologies for that oversight.
pg
----------------------------+----------------------------------
Paul Goracke | "Reality is that which when you
pgor@netcom.com | stop believing in it,
| it still exists." - P.K. Dick
----------------------------+----------------------------------
Your Browser is: Mozilla/5.0 AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko; compatible; ClaudeBot/1.0; +claudebot@anthropic.com), IP Address logged as 13.59.2.212 on 21st May 2024 22:53:16
View the latest posts from our Forums via an RSS Feed!
