120 Map Drawers
A question for Carl, Vic, and any others with 120 FHC's earlier than 679397.
What holds up the map drawer? Nothing is listed in the parts cat. I have a BD.6801 plate carrier and brass slides from a later car, but they don't fit, too long front-to-back and the screws are in the wrong places. I'm pretty sure I have the right drawer. It has screw holes in the TOP edge of the wood sides, i.e. NOT in the SIDE of the sides. Does it even use brass slides, or am I missing something? If you can describe it or sketch it I can make it. Anybody know more?
Got the old girl out of hibernation this morning, cranked for about 10 seconds and she fired up, after sitting since October, what a great feeling! - Rob Reilly - 679187
My drawer fits within a sheet metal box bolted to the underside of the dashboard support structure. Drawer slides are attached to either side of the wooden box. They appear to be extruded brass(?). Since I have mine free from the car right now, I will be taking the sheet metal box to Wray Schelin for him to make a pattern. He will be able to make you a replacement if yours has been discarded. He also can provide you with a drawer. In your case I suppose someone took it out and replaced it with a radio? I was thinking that with the small size of electronics that are available now, one could restore the drawer and hide a radio inside. I can't imagine any other use for the drawer -- about all you can fit in there is a pack of chewing gum. Probably made for holding cigarette packs originally, but intelligent people don't smoke any more in the US (and I wouldn't let anyone smoke in my restored Jaguar anyway!). - Carl Hanson 1951 XK120 FHC 679012
I took my drawer apart, to take the enclosed measurements. Hope it helps to get yours fixed.
The measurements of the drawer are: length: 208mm width: 171mm height: 54mm
On both sides are chromeplated brass rails atttached by 3 screws on each side, sitting 85mm apart (measured from the centre one) The brass rail is 208mm long, 18mm wide and 6mm high. It has a groove of 14mm width, with a opening slot of 6.5mm width. That's what the counterrail, T-shaped, runs in. - Arno Wahl PS Did you call it Map Drawer? The workers at Browns lane called it contraceptives drawer. My memory might be wrong here, they might have just another word with a similar meaning. For the historians amongst us: Any idea?
The Browns Lane folks probably had the right idea! Remember, the XKE was once identified as the "Ideal Crumpet Catcher" (not my words - see Jaguar histories) and it probably drew on a rich and appropriate history tracing back to the SS-90!!! I've seen the term "dash drawer" and "fascia drawer" in print in various publications - should go out to the garage and dig out the XK-120 Spares Manual for period nomenclature!
It's interesting that you've measured using the Metric system, as the cars were constructed (and designed) using inches (excepting, of course, the spark plug holes); they did mix both English and Whitworth standards there, though, requiring THREE sets of tools for those of us who work on everything today!
Thanks for your help in clarifying sizes and locations of the mounting parts. Details are sparse in the Service and Spares manuals! - Larry Schear Twin Cam, Inc.
Carl, do you mean this metal box of yours surrounds the wood drawer all the way around, top and bottom? Or does it look like the picture in the 120 DHC parts catalogue, which is more of a tray and the brass extrusion T-slides hang down from it and the drawer hangs under this tray?
Arno, a clear difference in dimensions: mine is 7.187" width (182 mm) on the veneered faceplate, 6.625" width (168 mm) at all other places, and 8.5" length (216 mm); same 2.125" height (54 mm). (Arno is in Germany where inch measuring devices are perhaps not common).
This map drawer I have seems to be right for the car, its just that the 3 screw holes in each side are drilled vertically down from the top, no horizontal holes in the sides. The extruded brass channel-shaped BD.6699 slides I have from a later 120 FHC are not right for it. Carl, are your brass slides screwed into the side with horizontal screws like Arno's?
There are no holes under my dashboard to attach the BD.6801 metal tray where its supposed to go as installed on later FHC's and all DHC cars. Instead there are pairs of tiny holes drilled into the wood instrument panel on each side of the drawer opening, spaced at 3/4", like they were for some brackets or something (could be for a radio tuner). These are blind holes, i.e. they do not go all the way through to the veneered surface. There are also a pair of 1/4" holes on the lower horizontal lip of the metal instrument panel "chassis" spaced at 6.25" (159 mm). Moving forward, there are a pair of 1/8" holes through the lap joint where a vertical panel and a horizontal panel are spot welded together. These holes are spaced at 8" (203 mm). Nothing else to suggest how the drawer was installed. And maybe it was never drilled for a drawer because it was drilled for a radio tuner instead? Does anybody know anything about what the tuner looked like? The reason I have not simply drilled more holes to mount the metal tray is it is too long, doesn't fit between the instrument panel and the other vertical panel. I guess I would like to know more before I go ahead and finagle something.
To clarify for any of the rest of you who may still be trying to follow this: The first 180 FHC's used drawer BD.5995, of which Carl's and Vic's cars are in this group. Then they went to drawer BD.6259 for the next 218 FHC's. Mine is in this second group. All subsequent FHC's and all DHC's used drawer BD.6696, and the parts catalogue indicates that the brass slides and metal tray and all the mounting hardware apply only to the last group. Hence the mystery.
I called it a map drawer because the Mark V parts catalogue calls it a map drawer. I do have a map of England that fits in this 120 drawer, though the maps we get in the USA of our states are too long for it. US maps fit in the MkV drawer, which incidentally uses longer lengths of the same brass extrusions for slides. - Rob Reilly - 679187
Speaking of dash drawers, the one for my 53 XK-120 FHC is missing. I have the face piece (wood) and the rail assembly attached to the back of the dash piece, but no drawer. I figured to make a new one out of Baltic Birch plywood, but don't know the wood thickness (if it's supposed to be wood) or drawer dimensions (depth, in particular). Was the original drawer metal or wood? Would appreciate a description I could maybe work from. Thanks. The rails are brass, 7 3/4" long, fixed to the steel frame-piece with two bolts on each side. I don't know if they are original or not. - Glenn C, 53 XK-120 681093 Glenn, I missed the drawer as well. Classic Veneers ( see jag-lovers) in the UK made me a new one to original spec. Problem is that I miss the rail and the structure behind the dash and they are hard to get. I was thinking of making it myself. I could meassure the drawer if you wish. Let me know. regards - Duco Avis For Glenn, Yes the drawer is wood but only the bottom is plywood, the rest is solid pieces. Yes the brass rails and sheet metal piece you mention sound correct, but you'll also need the brass channels that go on the sides of the drawer. Somebody makes a repro of the drawer and channels and I'll look for the info at home. - Rob Reilly - XK120 FHC 679187 Thanks to several who responded to my query about an XK-120 dash drawer (actual nomenclature: map drawer) and gave me the xk-lovers web page address [http://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-lovers] where I found just what I was looking for. I'm discovering more and more of these web sites I never knew existed. I also found the archives for this newgroup, so now I can go back and learn lots of good stuff. - Glenn C I am also missing the the guide rails and structure behind the dash although I do have a new drawer made by a local guy. I'm sure we are not alone as these parts often went missing when the radio was fitted. Why owners fitted radios to drown the growl of the exhaust is beyond me ! Glenn, I assume the brass rails are attached to the back of the dash for support - please tell me how this is done. Thanks - Peter Fielding I got a set of rails for my 140 FHC drawer from Coventry Auto Components Ltd Phone # UK 01203 471217. The brackets attaching them at the back to the body are a little harder to find but hoping to get some locally (in Perth). Hope this helps. - Bruce Lake This is what the parts books say about these drawers: now, how were they different? XK120 FHC - PB 2: the following drawers were fitted: BD 5995 669001 only 679001-679179 180 cars BD 6259 669002 only 679180-679396 198 cars BD 6696 669003 onwards 679397 onwards The last of these was the same as the DHC. JCNA XK120 - FHC and DHC: drawer was lined in green baize. [This is apparently wrong as a generalisation] XK120 DHC PB 37: BD 6696 fitted to all - same as the latest of the XK120 FHC types. Not required when the radio was fitted. Plate H7. Knob for drawer: XK120 FHC PB 2-3, DHC PB 37: knob was BD 4717 for all (Plate H8), secured by a screw BD 539/16. Stop, for drawer: XK120: There was also a stop BD 6086 fitted to the drawer itself, secured by 2 wood screws BD 1501/1, and a further 2 stops BD 7707 fitted to the sides of the opening in the instrument panel, each secured by a single woodscrew BD 1503/6. Packing: XK120: There was also "packing" BD 6258 for each of the first two types of XK120 FHC and DHC drawers, but not the third type. It is not clear what this "packing" was. Slides: XK120 FHC PB 2-3, DHC PB 37: There were slides for the drawer, and all of the slide mechanism parts were the same for the three different FHC drawer types and the DHC. On the drawer itself were a pair of female slides BD 6699 which were identical both sides (note that the XK140 had the male parts on the drawer itself), and secured to the drawer by 3 woodscrews BD 1606/4 each side (similar to the XK140, but apparently slightly shorter). See Plate H, XK120 DHC book. On the drawer opening on the instrument board, there were a pair of male slides BD 6697-8, evidently "handed" (unlike the XK140, where they were identical, see below), and secured to the opening by 2 setscrews NS 119/4D per side and on each a nut NN 119/L, shakeproof washer C 723/A and plain washer AW 102/T. There was also a carrier plate BD 6801 for the drawer support, see plate H13, secured by 3 woodscrews BD 1502/2. In addition there were 2 setscrews NS 119/4D (each with a nut NN 119/L and shakeproof washer C 723/A) for securing the drawer support. There is no part listed as a "drawer support". XK140 FHC 239, DHC 185: drawer was the same for each, not of course fitted to the OTS. Different from the XK120 drawers above: part no. BD 8820, and noted specifically that the drawer was "not required when radio is fitted". The knob was the same as the XK120 knob mentioned above. One part of the slide mechanism was on the drawer itself, the male part, being BD 8823 secured to the drawer by 3 woodscrews per side BD 1606/5. There was also a stop BD 6086 on the drawer, secured by 2 screws BD 1501/1. The other parts of the slide mechanism were the female parts BD 8821, one on each side of the opening. These were secured by 2 set screws per side, NS 513/4H, each with a nut NN 113/L, shakeproof washer C 721 and plain washer AW 104/T. Any more reports of the drawers with vinyl lining which I think Dick C has seen (Rexine, I guess)? - Regards, John Elmgreen I believe the early XK120 drawer ie BD5995 has a larger face than the later types I have an early fascia from J1069 approx 679068 and can measure it next week Whether BD6259 was the same I do not know. I am quite sure that ALL XK120/140 drawers had a green felt material very similar to billiard table cloth fitted as did the MKV and MKVII. More on this and flocking later. - Terry McGrath Peter, Duco: Below is a representation of what is in my 120 FHC. 1953 XK120 FHC Map drawer mount Metal Brace and drawer mount, front view - not to scale: |------------ 18.4 cm -------------| ____ __________________________________ | | back piece bent up attaches | 2.4 cm | to sheet metal cross piece. | | | o 2 mounting holes o | ____ |__________________________________| | front piece bent down with 3 | | | holes to screw to bottom of dash | 2.05 cm | as dash brace and drawer support | | | o o o | ______ ______|----------------------------------|_____ ____ |----1.4 cm ----| depth (front to rear) is 15.0 cm Brass rail: |--- 1.3 cm ---| --- ====] [====|| | hole(2) || _______ | || || | 1.05 cm || || | | || || | _________________||====|| 1.3 cm | || | | || | | || ______|_ |-0.6--| cm It's made of extruded brass, 19.6 cm long, 0.070 inches thick (about 1.7 mm). Measurements are outside to outside, taken with metric beam caliper. The one shown above would be the left side, attaching under the steel brace. The steel piece the rails mount under is made from a single piece of sheet steel about 0.038 inches thick (close to 20 gage) that has been bent into a shape that also serves as a brace between the bottom of the dash and the sheet metal across under the windshield that secures the steering column. The rail mount/brace piece could be duplicated fairly easy by a decent sheet-metal bender. One might have to look around a bit to find the brass rails. To one who has a drawer... Does a metal angle piece just hook over the top of the inside of the brass rail? I hope this representation gets through the internet okay. It looks like heck in my AOL message editor, but the spacing seemed okay in a regular text editor. You may have to save it and look at it with a plain vanilla text editor to get it to line up okay. - Glenn C, OKC 681093 I found the source for the map drawer, and it's our own Wray Schelin (WES Parts, firstname.lastname@example.org ). His price from a year ago was $60, and he had the slide at $30. Glenn, your ASCII art came out ok on my screen and without checking the dimensions I'd say you have the correct parts. The mating part on the drawer is a brass channel BD6699 which looks sorta like a capital letter C that has been smashed flat on the left hand side, 11/16" high x 7/32" wide with a 1/4" gap between the tips of the C. This channel screws into the side of the drawer. John, great summary of the drawers & slide parts, with two exceptions, and here is where I've been mystified for a number of years. To all, remember mine is 679187, in the second grouping of early FHC's. 1. I have the BD6801 carrier plate for drawer support, but it doesn't fit in my car, too long front to back, and the screw holes are not in the right places. 2. My drawer has screw holes in the TOP of the side wood pieces, not in the SIDE of the sides, so the brass channels BD6699 are not correct for mine. So there is something different about the early FHC's and I haven't been able to figure it out, and unfortunately only another FHC earlier than 679397 will be able to help. As to the mysterious BD6258 packing piece, if we could find out what this was maybe it would make things clear, or maybe not. Maybe it's just the green felt liner. - Rob Reilly
A customer ( from Arizona) recently returned one of my dash center drawers because he said that his upper corners of the drawer facia are squared off and not radiused. My sample that I copy is from a 120 DHC, his car ( he's not online) is a very early coupe( he said the 15th built). Question: Does anybody else's dash drawer facia have squared upper corners? It seems to me that someone realised that the square corners were very vulnerable to chipping. I made up four new square corner drawers, and sent one to my customer. I'll keep those corners sharp on the remaining three until I exhast my stock of the radiused type. - Regards, Wray Schelin Carl and I have been conversing privately about map drawers, and now Wray is into it as well, so maybe I'd better share the word with the group. Remember there are three different drawers listed in the 120 FHC parts catalogue. Our goal is to figure out what's different about them, as well as identifying the correct mounting hardware for the first two. The third type is well known. The map drawer I have which I believe to be correct for my 679187 has the upper corners of the facia piece rounded with a 3/16 inch radius. The side pieces have their upper edge notched to a depth of 1/16 inch for most of their length. I now believe this is because mine should have the "male" brass slides screwed into the top edge. This is opposite from most of you others which have the "female" slides screwed to the side of the side pieces. In the dashboard (known to be original to this car) in the drawer cutout, the corners have a radius of less than 1/16 inch, so anyone might say it was square cut corners. I also have a rotted drawer from a later car (unknown chassis no), which also has upper corners radiused at 3/16 inch. This one does not have notched sides, and the "female" slides were screwed to the side pieces. I believe this to be the third type. Keep these little snippets of information coming in, friends. There are now at least four of us who are interested in early FHC drawer details, and now the interest extends to radio mounting panels as well. - Rob Reilly - XK120 FHC 679187 My 53 DHC (677053) has squared corners. - Gardner Howard With all the dicussuion on drawers for the FHC's, I might as well get into the frey too. (as if I don't have enough to worry about) Where does one get the mounting hardware for a drawer? Everything on mine is missing but I do have some nice walnut to make another one. There is a strange metal bracket in the trunk that may have been an amplifier or CD holder.The engine head is getting a complete milling and valve job. The exhaust guides were found to be way out of tolerance. This whole XK experience is making my VW days look pretty simple. - Aloha, Rob XK-140 FHC My 53 XK120 FHC 681093 has the radiused drawer facia. - Glenn C By the way; My drawer facia is radiused as well ( XK120 FHC S681221) Success. - Duco Avis Wray, The drawer opening in my '55 FH 140 is 2 1/8 by 7 1/4 with both upper corners rounded to 3/8 " radius. There is evidence of something being mounted in the opening before, but I don't know what. Word has it your the guy to see about hardware and a new drawer. How do you go about matching the wood grain and color? I am interested in getting one as long as it looks reasonably matched with the rest of the dash. - Thanks, Aloha Rob XK-140 FHC Dear friends, I know we have been through something similar, but... The handle of my drawer on my XK120 dhc was half missing when I baught it. I got now a spare one from my specialist. But somehow it doesn't look right. The spare one is now bigger (in the height) ans is much more pale. The handle on the small box in the dashboard is about the same colour as the dashboard itself, but the spare one is now much more pale. Are those two handles differnet or same? Should they have the colour of the dashboard or not? Best regards - Zoran Mitrovic Zoran, I too have noticed that the size of the knob varied from year to year, although the part no. remained the same BD 4717. My Mark V saloon has five of them, all the taller height, and rounded where the fingers touch, and none broken. My 120 FHC has two of shorter height and noticeably pointy where the fingers touch, and one broke at the narrowest cross section but I glued it. One may conclude your supplier sold you the taller, stronger variation. The color should match the rest of the dashboard, so you may have to get some wood stain and darken it. Incidentally one of mine is mounted a bit crooked, not quite square, evidence of sloppy workmanship by somebody in the Foleshill woodshop. - Rob Reilly
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